Guild meeting 4th October

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Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Vypra on Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:53 am

Guild meeting 4th October

Ryleen opened the meeting with the news that her marriage to Vaali has come to the attention of the Warsong Blades. It seems that their traditions demand that, once their baby is born, Vaali must take the child and leave Ryleen. Failure to do so would show him to be a traitor himself and he would be expected to resign his commission.

Naturally, the Ashen Order are not intending to loose a valued officer simply because of who he chose to marry and so, after some discussion, Jannack presented Ryleen with three options: Vaali complies and leaves her, taking his son with him, we oppose the decision and risk war with the Blades or, Vaali takes Ryleen back with him as his slave according to jungle troll tradition.

This would mean that we would essentially become the property of the Ashen Order. Our standing in the Horde would be that of peons...but Ryleen would not be separated from her husband and son and we will still have our lives.((*))

We all have the choice not to accept this but most of those present agreed to continue to hold to our oath to our Matriarch. It remains to be seen how the Blades will take this.

After some further discussion about Ryleen's decision, Gen'jin made a report on the progress with retrieving the lost half of Snicka.

After scouting Zul'drak it was discovered that the soul fragment is roaming Azeroth also trying to find its other half. Unfortunately, after tracking it for time, it was discovered that the fragment was captured and sealed in a talisman by a Kvaldir.

The group will be searching for one named Ragnar Drakkarlund. However, finding him will not be the hardest part. Fixing a soul, even part of one, within a talisman is powerful magic and getting it back again may be a challenge.

The search will start out again from the Tuskarr village.

Finally, Gen'jin reminded us that we have agreed to help out on the Echo isles, though naturally, as Lahni pointed out, in light of the efforts being made to help Snicka, there has been little chance to do so.










((* Ry, if I have not represented this in the right way, please let me know. There is some issue around this after all and I don't know if anything was discussed to help solve this situation after I logged last night.))


Last edited by Vypra on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Ryleen on Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:15 pm

The way the plan was presented was that since the Heritage left separately to Ryleen, and never were banished, they could simply return to the horde. They would of course probably be looked down upon for serving Ryleen, but to say they would be peons might be a stretch. We have yet to see how exactly it will work out.

The plan is to call on the troll tradition of a weaker tribe offering women as peace gifts to a stronger one, essentially being the Heritage giving Ryleen to Vaali as a gift to avoid trouble with the Blades. This would make her a traditional troll wife, completely subject to the will of her husband and essentially a slave. In practicality it seems highly unlikely that Vaali would make use of this power though, and would probably let her live her life however she wants to.

That the Order would have power over the Heritage is a bit fuzzy. In some ways, they will, they could very well order Vaali to force Ryleen to lead the Heritage one way or another. This is, as far as I understand it, something they won't do though. I know for a fact that at least Yrjial is heavily opposed to the idea.



From an in character point of view, Ryleen hates this idea. It means to at least technically giving up her freedom. She will allowed to be free, but that is of course not the same thing as actually being free.

From an out of character point of view, I think this is an interesting developement and a clever way to bring us back into the horde.



Now, last night Katalmach finally showed up online and asked me to tell him what this plot as about. He is ooc very opposed to the idea and thinks it's illogical and goes against law and tradition, and he also seems to think this is us ooc trying to avoid consequences for the things we've done in the past, thinking this is us walzing back into the horde as if nothing ever happened. I wasn't able to explain myself properly to him, nor could I defend the order's part in the plot, since I can't really speak for them. The issue remained unresolved and I don't know what he will do, I also don't know if I upset him enough to do permanent damage to our ooc relationship. It's all a mess and I'm not sure how it all happened, it seems some things I said were badly misunderstood, but it's very likely that he'll try to change the direction of the plot and we might not be going back to the horde after all in the end. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Zul'Ros on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:05 pm

Ryleen wrote:this is us ooc trying to avoid consequences for the things we've done in the past, thinking this is us walzing back into the horde as if nothing ever happened
Well, technically he's right. But weren't it the Blades who initially started this whole wedding mess?
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Hadunka on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:34 pm

As for avoiding what we previously have created have we bin quite punished Already in some ways. and if we are let back in to the horde do I strongly doubt it will be on any better terms than the forsaken was in the beginning. Only because we are back in the horde do not mean that the punishment is over. Also .. Death knights .... do I have to say more?

Also a important note is that the reason for us leaving and Rys exile was a treason against the horde based on a attack on Archnask that was made because we saw what he truly was. Not long after did Katalmach himself behead said Archnask. Thus is the exile based on treason against a traitor. In my opinion and both of my chars opinion do this mean we should be heroes as we saw the traitor before they did and was punished for atemting to solve a problem for the horde. Wink Admitedly would it have bin better to solve it some way else.

As for the wedding mess is it based on a Orc tradition of what exile is. I do not know any place this is stated in lore. But I know some tribal cultures from our own world some years ago practise the same tradition. A exile is worse than death .. a dead person is allowed to talk about and remember, a exile is some one that never exist. Thus Vaalis wedding to Ry do not exists and he should be punished for eve considering to wed a exile.

I can understand this to some degree even if it appears to me to be after fabrication on the blades part to create conflict, as it was not mentioned at the trail what a exile is. But the plot solution follows actual troll lore existing in wow. The only unreasonable part in it is that in the horde is a wife on the same lv of importance as her husband. For for it to work would Ry have to be a slave to vaali rather than a wife as I understand it. But that is a technicality imo.

In short .. I se no problem with the selution as it is more on how it is dun that if it is a reasonable and/or lore correct solution.

Also .. should this lead to a war within the horde as it will otherwise I believe. Can I not see any other reasonable reason than that both Thrall and Garosh will punish those responsible for letting this lead to a internal struggle ... thus weakening the horde. So at least will Katal lose his position imo if it goes to war .. possible also Alaster although that is debatable. In any case will this unless handled properly inly have one end .. the inhalation of the blades, huge problems for AO and the house. most likely the destruktion of HoZ. In other words .. BAAAAAD for the realm rp

*ponders on if some one is deliberate trying to weaken the horde .... *

((Disclamer ... some of waht I have writen is OOC opinion and some is IC))
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Hadunka on Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:36 pm

Vypra wrote:Guild meeting 4th October

Finally, Gen'jin reminded us that we have agreed to help out on the Echo isles, though naturally, in light of the efforts being made to help Snicka, there has been little chance to do so.

It was Lahni that reminded us about it
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Euphrati on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:06 pm

Also after the meeting Hadunka presented an young troll, he had met and brought to the valley, to Ryleen. An short bluehaired, small tusked, but tall male troll. Supposedly an Winteraxe. He has forgotten his Zandali, but can speak wolf.
It was decided he was to stay a while, atleast until he learned to speak Zandali. Then after interwiev he will be allowed into HoZ. Ziri will be teaching him the basics, as it will improve her Zandali too. He stays up at Swamps hut for the time being.
3 Wolfish friends he have brought along him, two white and one black. None of the four would prove any danger, though act with great care around that area would be recommended. Anyone except Ryleen, Had, Lahni or Ziri comes close Swamps area, an territorial howl marking might be heard.
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Vypra on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:52 pm

Hadunka wrote:
Vypra wrote:Guild meeting 4th October

Finally, Gen'jin reminded us that we have agreed to help out on the Echo isles, though naturally, in light of the efforts being made to help Snicka, there has been little chance to do so.

It was Lahni that reminded us about it

my chat log says Gen'jin mentioned it but it was Lahni that pointed out why we haven't gotten round to it. edit inc to make that clearer

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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Vypra on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:22 pm

Right...

The way i understood the situation with us getting exiled was not just What Ryleen Did. As i mentioned last night, the blades could probably accept Ry being taken as a slave to Vaali to save her marriage and keep her son...the problem is, why this would have any bearing on the rest of the Heritage.

From the Blades point of veiw, Ry's guilt was proven and her punishment pronounced and carried out. The issue is that the guild as a whole then openly lied about turning their back on Ry and then forsook their oaths to the Horde (and i'm sorry, but unless you are one of our non-darkspear members, you should have taken it IC Razz ). In the eyes of the Orcs, this made us dishonourable and untrustworthy...and we've done -nothing- to try and alleviate the situation.


So, even if the Blades did accept Ry's solution to -her- dilemma, the -guild- is still a group of exiles.

I see our options are as follows:

1) Vaali quits the Order and joins us in exile. It not fair to force that on him, but after reading the material Naz pointed me at last night it seems the easiest and most realistic solution...though i can't say i would be happy to make such a sacrifice.

2) Ry is given as a gift to the Order. Somehow (that i have no idea how to pull off) she remains the Guild leader. She would be a slave of the Horde with no rights or freedoms other than what Vaali gives her and the rest of us would still be exiles.

3) Ry lets Vaali take the child back with him. Secretly, he regularly rendezvous with Ry so she can still be a part of his life but, to all intents and purposes, they lead seperate lives.

Now, i was never in on the discussions about this. IC'ly, Bats will follow Ry because she has nowhere else to go and despite the way things have gone she knows Ry has always tried her best to keep them all safe. However, ooc...i'm back where we were before we agreed to go into exile. I really don't see a rational explanation of how the guild can rejoin the horde under Ryleen's leadership wthout us all essentially being peons and tbh, i can't see why we would want to IC and there is still nobody with the time or inclination to take over from Ry

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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Ryleen on Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:49 pm

We should be able to just wait and see. In the end, this is an issue between the Order and the Blades, not us. If Ry and the Heritage remain out of the Horde, I doubt the Order would throw Vaali out for remaining with her. Which would but some serious strain on relations between them and the Blades, possibly leading to fighting. Unless the Blades do something stupid like try to separate Ry and Vaali by force, we should be able to stay out of it all.

Also, Ryleen won't rejoin the Horde without the Heritage going with her, or at least not without remaining their leader. I'm stretching the character a little in this. If forced to choose between the Heritage and her son, she would suffer but eventually have to choose her son. I as a player however, won't do that, since it'd damage the guild. I will only have her rejoin the Horde if the Heritage follows. If that can't be offered, she stays in exile and we think of something else.
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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Vypra on Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:25 pm

fair enough Smile


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Re: Guild meeting 4th October

Post  Hadunka on Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:14 pm

Vypra wrote:
Hadunka wrote:
Vypra wrote:Guild meeting 4th October

Finally, Gen'jin reminded us that we have agreed to help out on the Echo isles, though naturally, in light of the efforts being made to help Snicka, there has been little chance to do so.

It was Lahni that reminded us about it

my chat log says Gen'jin mentioned it but it was Lahni that pointed out why we haven't gotten round to it. edit inc to make that clearer

Ok I must have missed Gen mentioning it. Sins the first time I saw it was when Lahni was talking of it.
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