Re: Trolls and female equality

Vypra Fri May 01, 2009 5:59 pm

Lyranne wrote:My point was more that would priests and Paladins et cetera really be employed to work as medicine men and women and can they really cure every disease? Humans do not have an overy resilient immune system, and certainly in WoW there are incurable diseases/plagues (such as that which creates the scourge).

well, i don't see why paladins/ preists would need to be employed. In our own history, the preisthood pretty much tried to stop anybody else trying to cure illness. Only through God (or in this case the holy light) should a person be cured Razz

In addition, I don't see that the trolls would have a more violent life than the humans, and so wonder if the life expectentcy attributed to humans is more out of laziness than an application of logic.

Actually, the lore kinda points to the fact that , yes, trolls -do- have a much more violent lifestyle.

One could also wonder about what affects magic and spiritual cleansing have on the aging process: Does it retard, or encourage it to speed up?

That raises an interesting point...have some diseases become magic resistant in the same way we have anti-biotic resistant infections? The introduction of morden drug treatments has dramatically increased our life-expectany though so we could probably assume that magical remedy would have a similar effect.

Does it affect people at all. Then we have the simple ponder of whether humans age at a realistic rate or if again, they've appended modern numbers onto them.

as i said previously, i'm pretty sure they just used our current human life expectancy rather than apply a medieval standard Razz

This goes for all races, and personally I find it interesting (even if I'm simply overthinking).

me too...and don't worry, we'd find it unusual for you -not- to go into this much detail Wink

Snicka Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:38 pm

Jizara's application (who is a very traditional-minded Darkspear troll according to his application made me wonder: does sexism exist in Zandalar?
I checked the Zandalari NPC-s on WoWWiki, and found women in the following positions:
*Innkeeper - classic female job, if I may say that
*Stable master - a woman watching over animals
*Poison supplier - this suggest that some Zandalari women are into the art of brewing potions and poisons
*Alchemy supplier - just like the poison supplier
*Ammunition vendor - may suggest that some Zandalari women are into the art of war (I don't know if there are any female guards in Zandalari outposts, though - perhaps she only makes the arrows that men use)
*Chronicler - apparently inherited the positon of her father, which means certain positions can be held by both men and women
*Element-Tamer - a female shaman
*A woman with the title "of Zuldazar" - this suggests that women can indeed become high-ranked officers.

shadowtroll Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:57 pm

I have researched myself about Zandali trolls a tad more before posting my application. Woman seem to have a higher statute in Zandali society then in usual troll tribes but the question how far a wo'mon can go up in ranks stays open.

But could be a exception just as in Forest Troll society where we see examples like:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Vile_Priestess_Hexx

http://www.wowwiki.com/Primal_Torntusk

Although for the later one the current Tribal leader Witch Doctor Maj'Jin is held captive or gone missing. Sounds familiar does it? Smile

http://www.wowwiki.com/Elder_Torntusk

http://www.wowwiki.com/Witch_Doctor_Mai%27jin

Jungle trolls and Sand Trolls seem to accept only male Leaders, while they yet allow females to take part in battles when neccesary.

Ah and Snicka, checking the male Zandali NPC's in game you will note that they are primaly (if not all) spiritual leaders or Warlords/Fighters. Which might indicate that the female trolls indeed do serve as back up in ways of forging weapons, brewing poisons or suplieng them with food.

EDIT: I forgot about Zul'Draks male troll vendors, which proofs my above point as partly false.

Ryleen Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:55 am

The poison vendor thing isn't very surprising. In that level of technical developement, regular cooking and brewing potions and different cures for illnesses aren't all that far apart. Smile

As for the female shaman, she was obviously educated after joining with the orcs, as there were no shamans prior to that.

Forest trolls have equality between genders, and I believe zandalarians do as well, but I'm not sure.

Snicka Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:11 am

On the issue of the female shaman - she's a Zandalar troll, and those don't have close connections with orcs at all.
Although the trolls did indeed not follow shamanism, note that she's labelled not as a "shaman" but an "element-tamer". It is possible that some magic-users of Zandalar have tamed and used the elements for their own goals before learning the orcish shamanism. After all, the god Shango is a deity of storm - technically an elemental god; perhaps an element-tamer is a priest of him.

Ryleen Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:13 pm

True. I thought it was a Darkspear we were talking about.

It makes a lot of sense to call her an elemental tamer, considering that the trolls' relationships with the spirits (be they gods, elementals or dead relatives) rarely takes the form of the respectful symbiosis a orc shaman has. It's usually worship and sacrifices to a spirit strong enough to be feared, or taming by force if it is a weaker spirit. Smile

Vypra Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:02 pm

The question came up again on the rp forums and here's the reply from Adnaw:

Gurubashi or Jungle Trolls -

All of these tribes view women as property. The status of a warrior is generally associated with the amount of wives he can take. But this does not mean that you can just use or take another mans woman. Women are all property wether they re owned by the family patriarch or a husband. So you would not just be able to take any woman you happen to see around the night time fires.

On the other hand if you happen to own said woman you may use her in any way you see fit.

Exceptions:

Women who are gifted by the loa and able to harness voodoo, they are then devoted and given over to religion, and untouchable but few ever reach the level of respect their male counterparts achieve..

The Darkspear Tribe is the other exception, this is due to Thrall's influence and the rest of the Horde. This has elevated women to being Semi-equal to men. Socially old stigmas most likely remain, but overall these women lead a better quality of life and are taught to fight and other occupations other than cooking and baby making.

Amani or Forest Trolls

These trolls have always treated their women on at least n equal footing as men. Forest trolls tend towards an actual matriarchal existence, their chieftains and religious leaders tend to be female. Although their High Chief of the Empire is Zul'jin a male.

This sort of treatment of their women would never be stood for.

Exceptions:

The Amani tribe tends to be somewhat male dominated. Their leader is male, and they have a very devout male warrior society. Although women are not as low as many of the Jungle tribes, they don't hold the same level of reverence as they do with the other Amani Empire tribes.

There are the others which for the most part seem to follow the model of the Amni Empire more closely, even the Zandalari view women in a pretty equal position. In the end it is mostly only the Jungle trolls with such a viewpoint.

The Revantusk and other Amani tribes are not more likely to treat women equally due to Thrall's influence, as it is apparent that this set up was there before the Revantusk were allied with the new Horde and the other forest troll tribes share this set up.

embarrassingly, it appears i forgot we'd discussed this before making my reply there Razz

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