Where do we go from here?

When you guys don't see any problems with living in Zul'Gurub, I unfortunately see. This was a dwelling place of an incarnation of Hakkar and his malicious priests, quite a long time ago, but it was. Hakkar is persistent, he was already banished once, but returned years later. I don't think any tribe of trolls not worshipping Hakkar would like to settle in there, just as I don't see anyone wanting to settle down before the temple of Ahn'Qiraj. And for more or less the same reason - powerful entities leave their mark, especially evil and malicious. Be it Hakkar, Yogg-Saron, Illidan or any other. Even tribes in our world did (and probably still do, as there is still plenty of tribal societies in the world) avoided places inhabited by followers of "dark and evil magic" and not settled there, at least for a very long time.
For other problems, I see that nobody really contributes with their own plots. I used to do some on Kaz, but right now I am barely able to. Although since now I will try to do so, on both my characters inside and outside the guild. Time to help, not only be a member. Sorry for lack of support before, Ryleen, I'll try my best now.
As much as I'd like to keep the name of Heritage of Zandalar, I see the problems with living up to it. After all, Zandalar tribe wasn't too active in WoW, save from Stranglethorn and Zul'Drak, there is practically no mention of them. As much as I dislike changing the guild name (which would require reforming the guild and losing achievements - including my pretty 21.212 critter kills! ), it may be necessary.

okay, when you put it that way Kaz, occupying ZG does indeed seem like a bad idea

In order to really decide what to do we first need to look at what we want with the guild. More importantly … what would our characters what to do? Admittedly sins we became exile we have lost a lot of the ”lets preserve Zanadalari culture and spirituality” bits. Partially due to movement limitations and interaction problems with other rp guild.

Rejoining the horde will have its own pros and cons. One of the main ones is that doing so will rescuer a lot of changes to the guild .. not necessary good one. I also fail to see how for example my char would accept this solution. Also .. with the background some chars have I can see them getting conscripted to the army if we are to keep it ”reasonable”, especially with this new horde.

To reform the guild is not really an option. The guild would still consist of the same chars, thus not much can be changed and we still have some of the old ”problems”. To also reform the characters? Well if that is the way we go i will just make had a OOC char and concentrate on my other rp characters. As it is now Is Had a high prio, and as long as he stays the char I have come to enjoy playing ... he will be. Admittedly would a name change be nice for pure cosmetics … but I dunno to what …

To have any chance of develop our rp at al, I believe we need to get to the situation were we are considered just an other neutral faction. In other words … the hord need to folow the agreement we had upon leaving the horde … problem there is Ryleens exile sentence and the after fbrication off rools .. or ma-by more precise .. failing at informing what it ment IC and OOC. But it is OOC for rp in every ones interest to sort this out.

I believe we should try to move back to be a” group of like minded trolls that works to forward Zandalari culture and spirituality” … just within the frame work of a tribe. This simply put is the goal the guild have had all along as far as I know, we just hit a few speed bumps.

As for were we are to stay.
We need a place that is reasonably accessible for our members as well as not thorn in any of the other rp guilds.

The old valley was not hard to get to imo once you hit lv 55 + .. and before that it could e solved with some help. I used to have Hads HS in Dalaran. Then port to ogri then zep to stv and then a short run. Al in all if I was lucky with the zep timing it took me 5 – 7 min. Thees days you can fly in Azeroh from lv 58. We do have chars that is lower levels than that and we need to think of this.

I will do a fly by on mentioned arias today and see.

As for the phasing. Doing it on its actoual lv I can imagine take time as you lack flying as well as having to spend more time fighing. For a lv 80 mesurement will I do it on Chaj today and come back with how much time it takes. But Imo 2 h is not a long time to put on it. Unless it happens to be a low low prio character.

Rp drain wise … we have had Cataclysm relice and Christmas holidays. Rp was bound to go down. We must not let it affect us to think we lost rp. I know I have planed plots waiting that I hop to get going son. Kaz mentioned some thing and I do hope others are willing to make some as well some as well.
Once we can get back to the “Heratige of Zandalar” bits we can have events connected to that as well.

As for ZG .. ye it would not work. Simply cos of the dark magics and spirits that would be lingerign there.

About Zul'Gurub - while the presence of dark spirits is a valid point against it, we can actually twist it into a reason why we should move there. After all, one place where the Zandalar tribe was most actively present was Zul'Gurub. As we say we are in contact with the Zandalar tribe (although, obviously, not a part of them), there might be a chance that they ask the Heritage to move to Zul'Gurub as some sort of guardians to prevent Hakkar from returning. What is a better way to prove that we follow their ideals than continuing what they have began?

I don't know why the exile from the Horde prevented us from "preserving Zandalari culture and spirituality". After all, Zandalari culture has practically nothing at all to do with the Horde, which is a military coalition. I think the main thing with rejoining the Horde is the question if we become more or less dependant from other guilds. I think the Warsong Blades are dictating too much to the Heritage, which we too readily accept. If rejoining the Horde means the Blades will be more pushy with us, I'm against it (which is quite likely, concerning Garrosh's role in the new Horde); but if it means they will be more patient and tolerant with us, I am for it.

About the guild name change; we should take into consideration what the guild's name implies. As we are all trolls, we technically all have heritage from Zandalar; but using this as a guild name implies that we are proud of this heritage. Furthermore, we would actually do something to promote and preserve this culture; but the question is, what can we actually do for this? Should we be explorers that discover our trollish past (this would fit with obtaining a ship - not as pirates, but as explorers); cultists that promote the Zandalari religion (the modern Zandalar tribe's main activity seems to be stopping other troll tribes from abandoning their old religion, and destroying their own gods); soldiers that actually co-operate with the Zandalar tribe while not being part of it (this would contradict our agreement with the Blades, though, and probably would not fit the guild); civils that do service to the Zandalar tribe (as suggested above, if we return to ZG), or diplomats that make connection with Zandalar and the Horde (concering our current relationship with the Horde, that's not likely)? Just bearing the name of the Zandalar tribe while not having any actual connection with them in our acts or mentality seems to be a bit hypocritical.

On the other hand, the guild's name has another implication, which has nothing to do with the actual words, but rather the guild's past. We've gained a reputation of being distruptors of the Horde's order, traitors and exiles; weak and easy to force anything on us; it seems that we are the number one victims when it the Blades or the House wants to bully someone. I don't know how we ended up in this situation, and I am really sad it is, but it's a fact. This is another reason why we might want to drop the guild name; to be able to start with a blank page.

Finally, changing the characters for the sake of the guild is a VERY BAD idea. They are original characters with unique backgrounds and personalities, and you should not replace them with less original characters to fill the niches that the guild's structure. If the guild's theme does not fit you, you can always leave it (although I know how hard that is), or find a place in it that suits your character; but changing your character to fit more in the guild is something I see as terribly wrong.

I like the idea of taking a ship and exploring the world with it. That might become the room for /o channel (the ship, with /g remaining the link), and being explorers who seek information of lost Troll culture would fit greatly the name of Heritage of Zandalar.
Although returning to Zul'Gurub as defenders isn't the best thing for this guild. There are few of us, even fewer can take arms, and we have infant children among us.

Hope people don't mind my input, being out of the way is a real pain and I think probably the main issue for Cliffwalker Post. Echo Isle and Tanaris Boats have the joy of a nearby hearthstone location, the idea of a non-hollow boat and utilising chat RP for the insides with a non-guild restricted channel allows people to RP on the move and on their alts/mains in other guilds. This gives us considerable freedom to RP off the cuff as well as an easily accessible location (via hearthstone) to get to for face to face RP. On top of that you have a 'home port' for shore leave and greeting non-Guild guests.

To summarise using a Ratchet/Echo Isles non hollow boat would:
-Be readily accessible in both level and physical means of travel.
-Free of sudden unpleasant RP (Blades drop in to move us on.)
-Promote casual RP.
-Allow the Heritage to have a home they can personalise.

I think it's time to make a decision, so the poll is up. It will stay up for a week, that should be plenty of time for everyone to vote.

My opinion is rather obvious for some - get a ship, sail around and discover parts of Troll culture, do some research about it, then share knowledge with Zandalar, and by that, follow our name. Uldum would be another option, but it's unlikely that many people would go into that place in character.
//EDIT//
On second thought, I find Snicka's idea just below mine a good one. Take the ship near Echo Isles and sail around everywhere we want to!

I cast my vote on the "Join the Darkspears, but not the Horde" idea (I hope that while I'm currently inactive, my vote still counts; I might decide to return anytime). I explained my reasons in Zanick's thread, but repeat it here: the Darkspears' protection woul mean the Blades would piss less with us; and the closeness to the troll starting area means it's easier for us to recruit new members. The lack of indoor buildings is not that big disadvantage, we can hold our meetings on open areas; and the few non-Darkspear members could just get special permission from Vol'jin to stay there (it may be a source of RP: those without Darkspear ancestry should perform tasks for Vol'jin to prove their worth).
As the ship idea is quite popular too, it can be combined with the Darkspear idea by occupying the ship near Echo Isles, and using that to travel around the world, exploring troll culture. If we can't find any place to hold our meetings on the Isles, we can hold them on board of the ship too.

if it counts, i aswell have thrown my vote in for "Join the Darkspears, but not the horde" , i think what Snicka wrote best sums up what we could do there.

So far with 50/50 'Get and Ship' and 'Sign up with the Darkspears' I would recommend doing a mix of the both as discussed last night and echoed here by Snicka. Remember the Blades can only give you hassle if you decide to let them (RP is like sex, it's supposed to be both fun -and- consensual otherwise it's a crime!) but you can give yourself the option of using Vol'jin as a shield (use of NPCs as RP excuses is fashionable right now, sic. WSB and HoS!)

The boat of Echo Isles gives you the widest selection of all the options you've discussed here and elsewhere (although no idea about what's said in the secrets section as can't see that bit.) you have your channel RP for impromptu and off the cuff RP, your base of operations for face to face RP (on deck), a home, close to the Darkspears for RP alliance and safety, close to the Darkspears to spawn plotlines of giving aid and getting grief, and its' close to a hearthstone point for ease of access. I haven't voted because my choice was between a mixture of the two, I know its' being a pain but could we have that as an option?

Pretty please?

Well, I can put it this way:

If we do choose a ship I'm 90% sure the one outside echo isles is the best one, so we will be close to darkspear home.

Even if we don't join the darkspears I will pursue the plot of improving our bonds to the darkspears and be friends with vol'jin, we'll just not go live with them.

I think I'll be voting for Uldum. After all, I was the one who suggested it so it's kinda my responsibility.

It's clearly not our best option and I don't think it'll be chosen in the end. It's just that with all the support "joining the Darkspears" has been getting lately it feels like all the other options are being completely ignored, which is rather unfair. After all, they are all well thought out and have potential for future development.

As for the ship idea, I don't like it entirely from the IC pov. Ros was never meant for sailing, he has neither skills nor willingness to do it. Of course he'll tag along with the others, but that's certainly not what he'd like to do.

From an IC point of view, Snicka would hate the ship idea too; he developed some major fear of water thanks to the things happened to him. However, I like the idea in general to have an own transport vehicle we can explore the world with.

Ros, I say, choose the option you like the most instead of trying to bring a balance. All ideas are well-planned, but the goal of poll is to choose from them, not to show a balanced support; it's a "winner brings all" situation (with borrowing elements from other ideas). After all, we can't set up our base at the Echo Isles, in Uldum, and in Winterspring at the same time. If you think Uldum is the best choice, vote on that; if you think Echo Isles are, vote on that.

((Jastah, if RP is like sex, then it appears we are either regular rape victims, or masochism fetishists... ))

I vote for the ship, as joining darkspears would go against many of my chars (and chars plan to make)... especially for doing tasks to prove their honor for Vol´jin. And thinking of what some of them done previous in their life, Darkspears would prob have to force execution upon them for even allowing HoZ near Echo Isles.
Vilebranch, Sandfury, Firetree, Winteraxe... Even if Nimnir would prob (not certain) try to show his honor for darkspear the others would most likely not. And Darkspears would certainly not even dare to let the others close.

And Eup wouldnt mind ship too much perhaps, as she have some ship experience.

I voted ship since that none of my troll chars are friends with the darkspears...

It seems decided then. We take a ship, and I think one of the two outside echo isles will suit us best. As for what the other ship icly will be.. dunno. trade ship visiting ratchet? Shouldn't matter much.

Once I have time (tonight? This weekend?) I'll start some serious planning on how to include this and what we might want to do. I have a bunch of ideas already, but if you have any of your own, please tell me and I'll try to puzzle it all together into a coherent unity

Yes, the ship idea got almost two-third of the votes. I'll quickly list my thoughts and ideas of it.

I suggest that those characters who are not fond of boarding a ship (like Zul'Ros or Snicka) should set up a base near the Echo Isles harbour, where they can regularly meet the sailors. The guild meetings can be on board of the ship (with our avatars actually being there), while when the ship is on sea, chat-based RP should be used. Those on the land can be in constant contact with those on the ship by the help of the Spirit Link.

IC, the ship might be a gift from Vol'jin or even from Zandalar, or it might be something we build, or something we buy; although robbing a ship sounds like fun too, we don't have too many warriors. Also, which characters are able to sail a ship IC from the guild?

Once we have the ship, we can go on expeditions using it. IC reason? In the Cataclysm many troll relics have been destroyed, others have come to the surface; we have to find and protect all that is preservable from them.

I hope you like these ideas and find them useful. Good luck with sailing!