New list of loa - v. 0.51

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Thu May 27, 2010 11:36 pm

Ryleen wrote:And we have yet a new version, mostly edited for readability.

I see it's just the outlook altered a little bit, the original WoW loa (like the forest gods) are not added yet.


There was a loa who defeated Ba'ulu when he tried to swallow the sun. Who would that be?

As Legba is a loa of the sun, maybe it was him? He got his domain over the sun after defeatig Ba'ulu? (Who does it in the original voodoo lore?)


Ogoun is said to turn into a red bull and Oya into a water buffalo. Neither of these are represented in the game. Are there any more suitable wow animals they could have?

There are several giant herbivores in the Warcraft universe: rhino, giraffe, stag, shoveltusk, zhevra, kodo, mammoth (lore also mentions elephants, although they don't appear in-game); the ice trolls even have a rhinoceros loa (Akali) and a mammoth loa (Mam'toth).

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Zul'Ros on Thu May 27, 2010 11:58 pm

Snicka wrote:(lore also mentions elephants, although they don't appear in-game)
What about those elekks used as mounts by the draenei?
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Fri May 28, 2010 12:01 am

Zul'Ros wrote:
Snicka wrote:(lore also mentions elephants, although they don't appear in-game)
What about those elekks used as mounts by the draenei?

They are similar to elephants, but a different creature, and they are from Outland - a continent which trolls didn't know about until the orcs' invasion. It's safe to assume that no creature from Outland is present in troll mythology.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Fri May 28, 2010 4:24 am

And there's another update. Added all the ingame loa. They are painfully lacking in info. Feel free to pick a loa and make up more info about them Smile
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Vypra on Fri May 28, 2010 8:40 am

Well, if you follow the questline from Har'koa in Zul'drak you do find out that Quetz'lun is a very vengeful Loa. She's already cursed her followers but she also orders you to punish them for what they've done. She gives you a hexxing stick to punish her high priests and asks you to lure some of her followers to her 'soul fonts' so she can taste them.

here's the link to the quests: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=12684

sadly you don't really learn that much about many of the other Drakkari Loa Razz

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Fri May 28, 2010 11:46 am

Nice list. Smile

A few comments:

- Agweh's symbol is said to be an alligator, but in the Warcraft universe, there are no alligators; the closest creature to them are crocolisks.

- The relationship between Mueh'Zala and Shadra, as I remember correctly, was speculated from Shadra's title "Death's Lover". However, I don't mind it becoming Guild Canon.

- On the ice loa: we don't learn much of their personality and traits indeed, but we learn their fate, and make some very easy speculations.
* Sseratus was killed by his prophet, his blood drank, which turned the prophet into a giant snake-monster.
* Har'koa's children were harnessed by the Drakkari, and she wants to free them before the other Loa, and save one from Quetz'lun, which suggests she's a very maternal figure; she even might be the protector of mothers. We also learn she's a friend of Rhunok, but not on good terms with Quetz'lun, but still helps her to avenge her prophet.
* Rhunok's prophet killed himself while trying to harness his god's power; while the Drakkari are trying to resurrect him, the god asks the players to kill him. He still fights back, saying that he has "instinct to survive". Being a bear god, his traits might be similar to those of Nalorakk.
* Quetz'lun was killed by her prophet, but her vengeful spirit uses the power of her guardians and children in the underworld to avenge her death. She is violent and scornful, and has much pleasure in torture. Her wind serpent aspect and malicious personality both suggest she is related to Hakkar; probably his sister.
* Mam'toth, like Rhunok, killed himself before the trolls could steal his power, creating a crater at the place of his temple. His spirit still lives in his blood. The mammoths are his offspring, enraged by their father's death.
* Akali is chained down and his prophet kills him and drinks his blood before he can be freed. The prophet is destroyed, though, by the help of Har'koa.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Fri May 28, 2010 4:21 pm

I'm planning to go through the quests concerning the frost troll gods and make what I can out of it. For example Har'koa gives you one of her whiskers to cleanse the souls of her corrupted children, suggesting that the cleansing of corruption and taint from maybe both souls and lands might be part of her powers. I'll hopefully find at least something for all of them that we can use as a base.

Things like "Sseratus was killed by his prophet, his blood drank, which turned the prophet into a giant snake-monster." are terribly unhelpful though. It says what has happened now and recently. It says nothing about the personality of the god, it's powers, it's traits or it's symbols or anything else that might fit into this list.

The three Zim'- gods were interesting. My info on them is pretty much solely based on the nature of the buff you get when bringing offerings to them, and the tiny quest texts.

To have Quetz'lun be Hakkar's sister makes a lot of sense, I think I'll do that.

Har'koa will not be a mother god. If you look through the list, we've got plenty of protectors of women already Smile
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Fri May 28, 2010 8:03 pm

Ryleen wrote:I'm planning to go through the quests concerning the frost troll gods and make what I can out of it. For example Har'koa gives you one of her whiskers to cleanse the souls of her corrupted children, suggesting that the cleansing of corruption and taint from maybe both souls and lands might be part of her powers. I'll hopefully find at least something for all of them that we can use as a base.

Going throught the quests to do some research is a good idea. It is worth to look at the totems and statues around the altars to get some inspiration. I haven't done the quests myself, but read the quest description on WoWWiki, and that's where I gathered my information from.

Things like "Sseratus was killed by his prophet, his blood drank, which turned the prophet into a giant snake-monster." are terribly unhelpful though. It says what has happened now and recently. It says nothing about the personality of the god, it's powers, it's traits or it's symbols or anything else that might fit into this list.

That's true, we don't learn too much about the personality of Sseratus, Akali or Mam'toth, only the current events concerning them. The only ones heavily involved in the quest lines, with whom the players heavily interact, are Har'koa and Quetz'lun.

The three Zim'- gods were interesting. My info on them is pretty much solely based on the nature of the buff you get when bringing offerings to them, and the tiny quest texts.

Those buffs give away a lot of information about a certain Loa's domain.

To have Quetz'lun be Hakkar's sister makes a lot of sense, I think I'll do that.

It was just my speculation, but they look alike and have a similar personality, so I am happpy you like it. Note that it will make her Ula-Tek's daughter too.

Har'koa will not be a mother god. If you look through the list, we've got plenty of protectors of women already Smile

Well, the quest dialogues pretty much reveal that she's all about "save my children, rescue my kitten, etc."; I find her very motherly, her children's fate are more important to her than that of her fellow gods. Would it hurt to have eleven motherly gods instead of ten?

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Euphrati on Sat May 29, 2010 12:47 pm

For being old gods to an race with old female oppression they have alot of gods that are females, Seems a little odd, but it mght have seen as an honoring reward that in death ya spirit get greater rewards more honor then most men. Could have been an reason females in many other tribes was very long/still not granting females any greater positions. As in death they get an more worthy "life"
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 12:52 pm

Note that it is only the jungle trolls (and probably the ice trolls, I don't know much of them) that have oppressed their women; females of high rank are part of the sand troll and forest troll society.
Also, most ancient cultures in our world oppressed women, but had plenty of female gods. Look at the Egyptian or the Greek pantheon for examples.
Actually, it is exactly those cultures where women are oppressed that need female gods the women can pray to. Their men might be cruel to them, but their goddess protects them.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 1:48 pm

The upcoming quests, related to re-taking the Echo Isles, heavily feature a loa called Bwonsamdi (written in one word). Most likely he is the same person as Samdi (as both are inspired by the actual loa Baron Samedi), but I noted that his name is written in one word, so the "Bwon" part doesn't sound like a rank. Maybe his full name is Bwonsamdi, but he is called Samdi for short? Or are they two different gods?
Note that Samdi is referred to as a shadow hunter loa, and Bwonsamdi is called upon by Vol'jin, who is a shadow hunter.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Sat May 29, 2010 1:51 pm

Snicka wrote:"Respect the Loa, and do not abuse their power (like the Drakkari did). The only exception from this is Hakkar the Soulflayer, may his name ever be cursed."
Also, we should hold rituals where we perform sacrifices to certain important loa (Legba, Samdi, Zanza), and our trolls can pray to them. They are not obligatory to attend of course.

This is from another thread, but I thought it more fitting to respond to it here.

As you can see now in the new list of loa, Hakkar is far from the only one who may be seen as 'evil'. Some are most definately evil, and some are in the grey area inbetween.

And they also recieve sacrifices from the 'good' trolls.

Why?

Sacrifices are not only intended to be a way to win th favour of a god and convince it to do things for you. It's also simply meant to keep the god in a good mood, and in the case of 'evil' loa; convince it not to do bad things to you.

I'm sure that in Stranglethorn especially, most trolls leave little gifts to Hakkar, to not offend him and draw his anger. But not too much, of course. You don't want to draw his attention. Smile
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Sat May 29, 2010 1:54 pm

Snicka wrote:The upcoming quests, related to re-taking the Echo Isles, heavily feature a loa called Bwonsamdi (written in one word). Most likely he is the same person as Samdi (as both are inspired by the actual loa Baron Samedi), but I noted that his name is written in one word, so the "Bwon" part doesn't sound like a rank. Maybe his full name is Bwonsamdi, but he is called Samdi for short? Or are they two different gods?
Note that Samdi is referred to as a shadow hunter loa, and Bwonsamdi is called upon by Vol'jin, who is a shadow hunter.

Could just be a classical case of Blizz forgetting what they wrote for lore before / deciding to for no reason change it...

Once the quests are out, I'll look into it and see if he's supposed to be a new one.
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 1:59 pm

Yes, Vypra, maybe you're right; we should probably give sacrifices to Hakkar in Antu'Rah, so he doesn't hurt us.

And yeah, as you say, Ryleen, it might be Blizzard simply ret-conning what they wrote before.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Kaz'jo on Sat May 29, 2010 2:13 pm

I actually use a nice addon, which allows me to hear NPC quotes from upcoming Echo isles. It seems like Bwonsamdi really is a Loa, and Vol'jin states that "the Loa walks with us" and they will "continue to honor, as is propa", speaking all this to him. Also, Bwonsamdi says that he "will wait on tha otta side" for Vol'jin, and his voice sounds just as grim and calm as the Loa of dead should.
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Sat May 29, 2010 2:58 pm

It was me saying both those things, Snicka =P

Also, it seems very likely that Baron Samedi, Sam'di and Bwonsamdi are different names for the same loa Smile I suppose they didn't want to call him baron since it's not a title trolls use.
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Vypra on Sat May 29, 2010 3:25 pm

indeed, it was not my suggestion to make sacrifices to Hakkar. Personaly, I really doubt that's a wise idea.

Much better would be to make more offerings to the other Loa so, should the soulflayer return, they'll be strong enough to prevent their avatars getting taken over by him again Wink

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Sat May 29, 2010 4:03 pm

Having thought of it a bit more.. Yes, maybe you're right. But there are some other sort-of-evil loa that I can very well see you leave gifts to so they'll stay in a good mood and leave you alone.
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 4:49 pm

Vypra wrote:indeed, it was not my suggestion to make sacrifices to Hakkar. Personaly, I really doubt that's a wise idea.

Much better would be to make more offerings to the other Loa so, should the soulflayer return, they'll be strong enough to prevent their avatars getting taken over by him again Wink

My bad, giving credits to Vyp for what Ry wrote, sorry.
Yes, probably we shouldn't attract Hakkar's attention with sacrifices. It's other malicious Loa that should be kept away that way.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 8:16 pm

Thinking of it a little bit: there is difference between evil and evil.
There are Loa that are malicious and vengeful, and you should give them sacrifices so they leave you alone. I imagine Quetz'lun and Samdi like that, for example.
And there are Loa that are looking for slaves, like Hakkar. Giving sacrifices to him will not keep him away, but attract him and seek for potential new slaves.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Ryleen on Sat May 29, 2010 9:28 pm

What exactly is it that makes you consider Sam'di evil?
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Snicka on Sat May 29, 2010 9:32 pm

He's not really evil, of course. He's just shady and scary. And I am sure you want him to stay away from your house.

Same thing with Shango, for example. He's not evil either, but powerful and destructive, and you show sacrifices to him so storms avoid your house.

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Vypra on Sat May 29, 2010 10:30 pm

*smirks* you just mentioned the things about Shango that Vypra likes Laughing

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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Zul'Ros on Sun May 30, 2010 12:08 am

Snicka wrote:He's not really evil, of course. He's just shady and scary. And I am sure you want him to stay away from your house.
And I'm sure Gen'jin considers otherwise Razz
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Re: New list of loa - v. 0.51

Post  Euphrati on Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:14 pm

As ive been missing an raptor loa ive thought up with a new one.

Denih´cuss
Denah´nih
Nahni´cuss
(or something like it)

*facts* (its been an real one)
Deinonychus (Greek for "terrible claw"); pronounced die-NAH-nih-cuss.

Although it was far from the biggest dinosaur of the Cretaceous period, Deinonychus was especially fearsome because of its speed, its presumed ability to hunt in packs (tangled Deinonychus bones have been found in close proximity to the remains of Tenontosaurus, a tasty ornithopod), and the enormous, sickle-shaped claws on its hind feet that it used to rip apart larger dinosaurs.


Loa would represent: An jungle Loa. The raptor, encourages teamwork, is an very playful loa. Hunter of speed and swift, feroicious strikes.
When he walk in the jungle raptors follow him. Can transform itself into an raptor, that is bigger than usual raptors.
Offerings are made by offer meat to small raptor (kids?). And to give him an small prayer before eating your hunted pray.
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