The Primal Gods

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:53 pm

The Primal Gods

We as players know a lot more about the primal gods of trolls than before, we know about the gods of the amani, the gurubashi (Or stranglethorn centred jungle trolls) and the ice trolls, mainly the drakkari. These gods seem to be either some kind of ancestor of the animal itself, or a god taking on the aspect of that animal. But there are many mysteries that still remain. Are some Primal Aspects simply the same god just appearing in different ways? What are these god's intentions, and what separates them from other divine beings likes the Old Gods or the Vanir? Why are there some races of trolls who do not seem to have Loa of their own?

"All trolls worship a pantheon of primal forces; a sacred animal represents each aspect of the pantheon." - Dark Factions


Primal gods of the forest, left to right: Jan'Alai, Nalorakk, Ula'tek, Halazzi, Akil'Zon

Primal Forest Gods

The Primal Gods of the forest are encountered primarily in the raid event of Zul'Aman, where they are being used to empower four of Zul'Jin's warriors in order to fight the Alliance and the recently abandoned Horde. However, theses gods may not be partisan to the forest trolls, and may have been being held against their will like the Jungle gods of Zul'Gurub. In fact, these gods are apparently benevolent, as they help in the effort of the Zandali in Zul'Drak, perhaps in an attempt to save the Ice Gods from suffering the same fate they had. Ula'tek is a serpent goddess that is prevalent in the lore, speculated to be connected to the old gods. There is no given reason why Zul'Jin did not use her aspect in his war against the mortal invaders of Zul'Aman, perhaps it is because Ula'Tek is far more powerful, or perhaps because she is the same entity as Hethiss, the jungle goddess of snakes. Some speculate that she is an Old God herself, and the mother of Hakkar, but since the Old Gods have no affinity to any mortal creature, it is unlikely an Old God would align itself with serpents/snakes.


Last edited by Sertah on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:53 pm


Forest Gods, clockwise from top: Hakkar?, Shadra, Shirvalla, Hethiss, Bethekk, Hir'eek

Primal Jungle Gods

With the exception of Shadra, the primal gods of the jungle are all represented on azeroth by their champions alone. The champions of the primal gods were all sent into the ancient city of Zul'Gurub in an attempt to defeat Hakkar, but they eventually all fell under his power.
Since Hakkar is not the aspect of an animal spirit, and since he is far more powerful than any of the other gods, it can be assumed that his influence is not limited to the jungle, or indeed the Gurubashi empire. Brann Bronzebeard believes he may be the spawn of an old god, or even an old god himself. The spider goddess Shadra appears as an aspect before her forest troll worshippers in Shadra'Alor, Hinterlands. This could support the theory that the primal gods are simply entities that can traverse Azeroth, and adopt aspects that their followers will relate to, that being the animals of the area.


Last edited by Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:41 am; edited 3 times in total
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:53 pm




Primal Ice Gods

The gods of the Drakkari have arguably been given the most attention, as they are involved in quests and instances throughout Zul'Drak. Sseratus, the serpent god was slain by his followers, who then drank his blood and gained power from it in order to defend their homelands, The Prophet of Sseratus even becoming a powerful snake being similiar to high priest venoxis. Also, Slad'Ran, a high priest in Gun'Drak seems to have benefited from Sseratus's power when the god was killed. The fact that these primal gods can be killed is interesting, unlike other gods, who are usually just 'defeated' or just have their physical form destroyed. Mam'toth was the Loa god of mammoths for the Drakkari, but when they turned against him and attempted to steal his power, probably in much the same way as Sseratus, he destroyed himself creating a massive crater, but his power is used by Moorabi in Gun'Drak.
Rhunok receives less attention, and asks to be killed so that his power may not be stolen by the Drakkari. He is one of many bear gods in the game, including Ursoc, Ursol and Nalorakk.
Har'Koa is an interesting Loa, as she is the only Loa describe as having a mate (Loque'Nahak) and even children (discounting the sons of Hakkar) and is the only one that survives the Drakkari ordeal, living on in Zim'Torga with the Zandali trolls.
Quetz'lun is equally interesting, she looks exactly the same as the blood god Hakkar, and she is similarly malicious. When the Drakkari attempted to kill her and drain her of her power, she ripped open a hole in reality, sending them tumbling with her into an underworld of her creation. Quetz'lun is arguably the most powerful of the Ice Gods, being the only one that did not fall under the hand of the drakkari, and the fact her altar is heavily guarded by powerful wind serpents and air revenants. This could lead to speculation that she is of the same race as Hakkar, even related to him in some way.
Finally Akali, the rhino god, who has been chained and drained by his followers in front of Gun'Drak. His power is being used by Gal'Darah in Gun'Drak to summon spirit rhino.
The fact that the deceased Loa's power is still prevalent in the bosses of Gun'Drak could suggest that the gods are spirits that cannot be destroyed, and have willingly given their power to the high prophets to exact revenge for their deaths.


Last edited by Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:11 am; edited 3 times in total
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:54 pm

Primal God Speculation



Sul and the desert gods



This is Antu'Sul, translated as Guardian of Sul. Who is Sul? Perhaps it is one of the sand troll's desert gods? Sul, the basilisk god? And then maybe there are others, the scorpion god, the hyena or roc god? The Basilisk in Zul'Farrak are named Sul'Ithuz, and referred to by Antu'Sul as the 'children of Sul'.
Sul may be a desert god, but according to the Tablet of Theka there are at least two more:
'Eraka no Kimbul
God of Tigers, Lord of beasts, King of Cats, the Prey's Doom
Ueetay no Mueh'zala
God of Death, Father of Sleep, Son of Time, the Night's Friend.'

The fact that Theka's (An undead sand troll) tablet mentions a god of tigers is interesting, as the closest tigers to Tanaris would be the ones inhabiting the Echo Isles. But it is never stated that Eraka is a tiger himself, and could just as well have been a troll hero that was canonised in the eyes of the Sand Trolls.
Mueh'Zala couldn't be more ambiguous. He seems to be skin to the 'shadow hunter loa' and shares the power of Samedi (Perhaps soon to be known in WoW as Bwon Samdi). Mueh'Zala being described as a 'son of time' is interesting given the proximity to the caverns of time, perhaps Mueh'Zala is the troll name for one of the bronze dragonflight, maybe one who adopted a troll form?


Last edited by Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:36 am

I hope you enjoy reading, and it creates some interesting discussion. If you have anything to add, or if i have got anything wrong please let me know, and we can change the record!
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Trinda on Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:35 am

Yay! Some things to weigh in on. Very Happy

One thing that I noticed a while ago, is that until Bwonsamdi / Bwan Samdi (which is a fun Trollified way of saying Baron Samedi), the only "Loa" specifically referenced as such in-game is Zanza. All the rest are referred to as Primal Gods, Animal Gods, Animal Spirits and/or simply gods. This leads me to believe that Primal Gods are different to Loa.

Loa seem to manifest as Trolls, as we see Zanza in Zul'Gurub. I'm not sure about Samedi, but he sure sounds like he's gonna look like a Troll. I'm thinking Loa may be Trolls who ascended in the afterlife who guide their descendants (much like Orcish ancestral spirits). Or at least, they wish to appear that way so they are more relate-able and/or so they don't freak out the Trolls.

Whereas the Primal Gods are most certainly more animal spirit than humanoid. Manifesting as animals when not channeled through an avatar (as seen in Zul'Drak) or when channeled through an avatar, half-Troll half-animals (as seen in Zul'Aman, Zul'Gurub). Even their spirits appear as animals (we see the Zul'Aman spirits in animal form when they come to say hi in Zul'Drak),

That said, I still interchange the two terms myself. Mostly to stick to the conventions that players have been abiding by for the last 5 years. I don't like to rock a boat that is doing just fine, you see. I do have one character that will swear there is a difference and will try to convince others, but all my other characters interchange the terms loa and primal god freely.
-

The fact that the deceased Loa's power is still prevalent in the bosses of Gun'Drak could suggest that the gods are spirits that cannot be destroyed, and have willingly given their power to the high prophets to exact revenge for their deaths.
I'm not so sure they willingly gave their power. The quests lead me to believe that the power was siphoned from them and that none of the gods were willing participants and that the prophets figured out ways to keep the power even after the death of the gods.

Though, I would think that you are right in that the gods themselves cannot be destroyed so easily and that though they have been crushed in our realm, they may well be able to resurface in the distant future (like every other god and god-like being we've encountered so far).

-
'Eraka no Kimbul
God of Tigers, Lord of beasts, King of Cats, the Prey's Doom
Ueetay no Mueh'zala
God of Death, Father of Sleep, Son of Time, the Night's Friend.'

When it comes to the tablet, I always thought that the two beings named were Mueh'zala and Kimbul, rather than Eraka. I doubt they'll ever elaborate on that, so we'll likely always have to speculate who or what they are talking about. Also, the Sandfury were once part of the Gurubashi Empire before the Sundering, so sayeth the Troll Compendium. So, I don't find it strange that they venerate tigers. While it has been a long time since there were tigers native to Tanaris, there may have been in the past (pre-Sundering). I'm not 100% sure, but I'm still fairly confident that is where the Sandfury-Tiger connection is from.

Interesting take on Mueh'zala. While I did indeed suspect that he may have simply been a Sandfury version of Samedi, I never put the 'son of time' together with the Caverns, but now that you've said it, it really has my mind ticking. We already know that the Greens were swift in sinking the Temple of Atal'Hakkar. Could dragons have played a bigger part in Troll history than we know? Maybe.

As for Sul, I really have no idea. I would likely reach the same conclusion as you, regarding him/her being a basilisk primal god. Honestly never thought about it. I may have to steal the idea though. Twisted Evil
-

Finally, I have a question that has been bouncing around in my head for a while now. You folks seem like the right people to ask.
We know that in Zul'Gurub the Primal Gods' power was forcefully siphoned from the avatars, who in turn were being involuntarily controlled by Hakkar. We also know that the Drakkari were killing and stealing the essence from their Primal Gods.

However, in Zul'Aman, there is no real indication of forcing the Primal Gods into the warriors. I recently did the Zul'Drak questline and I tried to pay close attention to all the text and events. Leading up to the summoning and when the spirits of the Zul'Aman gods are summoned, there is no indication that there was any wrong doing in Zul'Aman. Which makes me wonder if the gods freely gave their power to the warriors. I know the Zul'Aman summary on the dungeon page says that Malacrass had to devise a way to seal the power within the warriors, but I'm unsure that necessarily means that he forced the gods to bend to their will.

If my speculation is in any way correct, then we may have our first indication of the Primal Gods actually aiding the Trolls in the defense of their city and reclamation of lost lands(instead of Hakkar who wanted to eat everyone's souls). I know that it seems odd to think that, but in reality, all the Amani were trying to do was reclaim their stolen lands. I know most people would think it absolutely out of the question, but if it's so out there... why were there no Zandalari who sensed the wrongdoing or anyone at all for that matter. All we had was Mr. Redneck saying yeehaw, let's get some loot and the Blood Elves who were happy to see the Forest Trolls being decimated. Something as dark and evil as imprisoning/enslaving gods would have set off some alarm bells -somewhere-, but there were none. Think about it.

And I think that's it for now.
Have fun reading my 3 am rambling. Laughing

PS: I did enjoy reading!
Doesn't look like you got anything wrong to me.
Some of my speculation may not match yours, but when it comes to the actual facts that we know, you seem to have it all down pat.
avatar
Trinda
Headhunter

Posts : 30
Join date : 2010-01-28
Location : Shadowprey Village

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:49 pm

Trinda wrote:
Finally, I have a question that has been bouncing around in my head for a while now. You folks seem like the right people to ask.
We know that in Zul'Gurub the Primal Gods' power was forcefully siphoned from the avatars, who in turn were being involuntarily controlled by Hakkar. We also know that the Drakkari were killing and stealing the essence from their Primal Gods.

However, in Zul'Aman, there is no real indication of forcing the Primal Gods into the warriors. I recently did the Zul'Drak questline and I tried to pay close attention to all the text and events. Leading up to the summoning and when the spirits of the Zul'Aman gods are summoned, there is no indication that there was any wrong doing in Zul'Aman. Which makes me wonder if the gods freely gave their power to the warriors. I know the Zul'Aman summary on the dungeon page says that Malacrass had to devise a way to seal the power within the warriors, but I'm unsure that necessarily means that he forced the gods to bend to their will.

If my speculation is in any way correct, then we may have our first indication of the Primal Gods actually aiding the Trolls in the defense of their city and reclamation of lost lands(instead of Hakkar who wanted to eat everyone's souls). I know that it seems odd to think that, but in reality, all the Amani were trying to do was reclaim their stolen lands. I know most people would think it absolutely out of the question, but if it's so out there... why were there no Zandalari who sensed the wrongdoing or anyone at all for that matter. All we had was Mr. Redneck saying yeehaw, let's get some loot and the Blood Elves who were happy to see the Forest Trolls being decimated. Something as dark and evil as imprisoning/enslaving gods would have set off some alarm bells -somewhere-, but there were none. Think about it.

Firstly, i've always read it that the primal gods chose their champions and willingly gave their power to them in order to stop Hakkar, but he was too strong, and so they and subsequently all the Gurubashi, Skullsplitter, Bloodscalp etc. etc. fell under his corruption. Remember that the Gurubashi empire initially rejected Hakkar and his priests, the Ata'lai, and exiled them, which is how they ended up in the swamp of sorrows.

In order to quell the blood god, the trolls of the land banded together and sent a contingent of High Priests into the ancient city. Each priest was a powerful champion of the Primal Godsó Bat, Panther, Tiger, Spider, and Snake--but despite their best efforts, they fell under the sway of Hakkar. Now the champions and their Primal God aspects feed the awesome power of the Soulflayer. Any adventurers brave enough to venture into the foreboding ruins must overcome the High Priests if they are to have any hope of confronting the mighty blood god.

Therefore i think the primal gods of the forest may have given power to their champions in a similiar way, to fight off the threat the ancient enemies (Elves) posed to the last stronghold of the amani empire, Zul'Aman. So i think you are right about them aiding the trolls in the defense of their lands, but i believe the way the primal jungle god's power ended up in their high priests was exactly the same. Based on the Zandalar trolls' previous, it would be safe to assume that if the gods were being used by a corrupt force, as in zul'gurub or if they were being killed and used, like in Zul'Drak, the Zandalari would ride in on their raptors and get stuck in! I don't think they needed to in Zul'Aman, because they likely revere the Amani empire and Zul'Jin's command above that of the horde or alliance.
Why it was necessary for the Drakkari to actually take the power from the primal gods is unclear to me.
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Zul'Ros on Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:30 pm

Usually you can take much more than you'd be given otherwise... Maybe they were just that desperate?
avatar
Zul'Ros
Headhunter

Posts : 163
Join date : 2009-05-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Nabu on Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:44 pm

This is great but do not forget new one: Bwonsamdi ^^
avatar
Nabu
Headhunter

Posts : 16
Join date : 2010-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sertah on Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:54 pm

Nabu wrote:This is great but do not forget new one: Bwonsamdi ^^

We didn't Nabu, he's mentioned above and is likely the same entity or a follower of Samedi.
avatar
Sertah
Headhunter

Posts : 59
Join date : 2009-12-27
Age : 25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Snicka on Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:53 pm

Nice research, Sertah, and nice pictures too.
I agree that the desert tiger god is called Kimbul rather than Eraka.
There's another possible desert god: Gahz'rilla, the mighty hydra. The trolls of Zul'Farrak worship him as a deity. Although he might not be an actual god, only a gigantic, divine beast.

_________________
Snicka, the Literally Fallen Warlord
avatar
Snicka
Warlord

Posts : 818
Join date : 2007-10-06
Age : 31
Location : Budapest, Hungary

View user profile http://heritageofzuljin.moonfruit.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Trinda on Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:52 pm

You know what? You're absolutely right about the ZG high priests.
It totally slipped my mind that they were freely given the power to combat Hakkar before they were enslaved by the power of Hakkar.
So, I guess Zul'Aman is the SECOND instance of divine help from Trollish divinity. Except this time, instead of Hakkar enslaving them and us subsequently destroying them for the good of Trollkind... we (the players... my character most certainly never went in there IC) flat out destroy them for no reason other than 'loot pinata' or Elven conquest.

I wonder what the Darkspear thought about that once they got in to the city. Despite the Horde being allies to the Blood Elves and the Forest/Jungle rivalry, I'm sure there must have been a fair amount of hesitation and protest. I mean, it's one thing to take Troll land in the name of Trollkind, but it's another to take Troll land and essentially hand it over to Elves. Especially land from Zul freakin' jin.

I always thought they could have given so much more weight to the situation by simply adding one Zandalar representative outside. It would still be the loot pinata that the majority of the players wanted, and it would at least be a small band-aid for the lore nerds like us.

Without that representative from Zandalar, all we were doing was killing Zul'jin for no other reason than Budd Redneck wanted phat loot. So very weak on Blizzard's part. Sure a lot of other heroes got killed, but they at least got decent explanations: Leaders of the Dark or Fel Horde or allies to Illidan the Betrayer or working with Kil'jaeden the Deceiver. It still makes me angry over 2 years later. Razz
avatar
Trinda
Headhunter

Posts : 30
Join date : 2010-01-28
Location : Shadowprey Village

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Zanick on Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:49 pm

Great thread. Thanks for starting this off, Sertah.

I agree with Trinda. I'm still annoyed about how Blizzard treated Zul'jin. Personally, I won't do anything in-game unless there's some decent justification for it (just getting loot is not enough to motivate me). So I haven't done most of the quests in Zul'Drak because I don't think they've made a good enough case for me to kill uncorrupted Drakkari trolls. And, although I've sneaked into Zul'Aman for a scout around, I've never done the raid itself.

Of course, if you don't do the quest chains or the raids then you miss out on some of the lore that gets revealed. So I feel a bit cheated, to be honest. I can't experience first-hand the very lore that I'm so interested in because of the game developers' odd or careless choices.

Hmmff.

It's almost as if they don't expect anyone to actually roleplay their character! But, no, that can't be the answer, surely . . .
avatar
Zanick
Headhunter

Posts : 257
Join date : 2007-10-08
Location : London

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Snicka on Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:06 pm

Killing Zul'jin and numerous Amani trolls make sense for:
1. The Blood Elves. They are the number one target of Zul'jin, he wants to bash their kingdom.
2. The Alliance. The Amani helped the Horde before, and the Alliance races see them as monsters.
3. The Horde, to an extent. Zul'jin was not a trustworthy ally to them, and now he's threatening their new allies.
But why do poor Darkspear trolls have to slay their green-skinned brethren, including the greatest troll hero of all time, just to protect the blood elven kingdom that has been built on troll lands?

If I understood correctly, after calling upon the help of the four primal forest gods (just like the Zandalari did with the five jungle ones), Hex Lord Malacrass bound them to their champions, enslaving them so they cannot escape, kinda like Hakkar. Which is, of course, bad in the Zandalari's eyes. But was this step necessary? Why wouldn't the four primal gods want to restore, or at least protect the ancient troll kingdom anyway?

Not to mention that this dungeon made us change our guild name back then.

_________________
Snicka, the Literally Fallen Warlord
avatar
Snicka
Warlord

Posts : 818
Join date : 2007-10-06
Age : 31
Location : Budapest, Hungary

View user profile http://heritageofzuljin.moonfruit.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Vypra on Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:17 am

wasn't really sure where to put this, but this article: http://www.wow.com/2010/07/17/know-your-lore-the-eternals-part-two-the-loa-gods-of-the-tro/#continued from wow.com gives a good summary of the Loa -

The World of Warcraft is an expansive universe. You're playing the game, you're fighting the bosses, you know the how -- but do you know the why? Each week, Matthew Rossi and Anne Stickney make sure you Know Your Lore by covering the history of the story behind World of Warcraft.

Last week we took a brief look at the Eternals known as Ancients -- immortal beings that were worshiped largely by the night elves, though other races also paid their respects to these ancient beings. This week we'll be moving from the demigods of the night elves to the gods, demigods and Loa of the trolls. The pantheon of Loa is vast and largely undefined, though we've seen glimpses of gods here and there, and will see at least one more of them during the Echo Isles event that will be coming sometime before Cataclysm's release. Some of the Loa gods referenced in today's article originate from the Warcraft role-playing games, and should not be taken as full-on canon as a result, however there are several other Loa that are featured in game.

To begin, the Loa are essentially primal gods, with each god representing a different animal or domain. Where the Ancients covered various types of creatures, the Loa cover various aspects of creatures -- there's a very subtle different between the two. The Loa tend to be a little darker, and some could be called "evil." In order to make this a bit more organized, I'll be sorting the Loa according to tribe.

Amani

The Amani Empire was once one of two ruling empires prior to the rise of the night elves. After the Sundering, the Amani were largely relocated to the Eastern Kingdoms, and suffered great losses at the hands of the humans and the high elves during the Troll Wars. Formerly a member of the old Horde, the Amani tribe led by Zul'jin pulled its support and took a neutral stance on the world, until the blood elves were taken in by the new Horde. Zul'jin, enraged by the apparent treachery of the Horde, vowed to take his revenge. In the Burning Crusade raid , it appeared as though he was doing just that, by creating avatars of the troll gods, or "forest lords."

* Nalorakk: Nalorakk is the lord of the bears.
* Akil'zon: Akil'zon is the lord of the eagles.
* Jan'alai: Jan'alai is the lord of the dragonhawks.
* Halazzi: Halazzi is the lord of the lynx.

These four forest lords did not choose their mortal avatars; rather they have been channeled into the bodies of mortal trolls by a witch doctor, Hex Lord Malacrass.

Ula-Tek: Not mentioned in Zul'Aman is the serpent goddess Ula-Tek. What's interesting about Ula-Tek is that she is one of many "snake gods" in Warcraft lore -- there are a ton of snake gods out there, she just happens to be the serpent goddess of the Amani.

Gurubashi

The Gurubashi Empire was the other ruling empire prior to the rise of the night elves, and it was massive. When the Sundering hit, it suddenly found itself split into many, many different locations -- most of the Gurubashi remnants were relocated to Stranglethorn Vale, but some fragments remained on Kalimdor, and they are the desert trolls we see in Tanaris today. A lot of Gurubashi history surrounds the Loa, and one god in particular:

Hakkar: After the Sundering, the Gurubashi Empire began to crumble. In desperation, the Gurubashi turned to their gods to help them, and caught the attention of one of the most evil Loa in the entire troll pantheon -- Hakkar the Soulflayer. Hakkar was a blood god, some believe he may even be the son of an Old God or even an Old God himself, though this has never been proven. Hakkar helped the Gurubashi regain their power, but at a price -- he demanded daily sacrifices for his own purposes.

What Hakkar was really after was a physical form -- as a blood god, what he wanted most was ... blood, and lots of it. Once he regained physical form, he could devour the blood of all mortal creatures, even the trolls that worshiped him. The Gurubashi realized this after some time, and the resultant upheaval caused one of the worst wars in troll history.

The strongest of the shattered tribes of the Gurubashi rose up against Hakkar and his priests, the Atal'ai, and while they were successful at destroying the avatar of the blood god and banishing him from the mortal world, the fractured remnants of the Gurubashi splintered even further as a result. In the end, the Gurubashi Empire collapsed, and most of the followers of Hakkar were shoved back into Zul'Gurub, the rest fleeing north to the Swamp of Sorrows, where they promptly built another temple to Hakkar.

The activities of the remaining Atal'ai trolls didn't go unnoticed. Ysera, Aspect of the Green Dragonflight caught wind of the temple in the Swamp of Sorrows and the plans of the Atal'ai, and smashed the temple under the marshes, which is why the Sunken Temple we see in game today is ... sunken, and why there are green dragons constantly patrolling the area around the instance. Unfortunately the incident didn't kill off all of the Atal'ai, and some remained deep within the Sunken Temple to resurrect Hakkar, believing that if this were accomplished, Hakkar would bring his servants immortality in gratitude.

It was discovered however that this could only be accomplished within Zul'Gurub, the old capital of the Gurubashi Empire. The summoning was completed, and Hakkar returned to the physical realm once more. The trolls of the surrounding lands sent in priests, champions of other primal gods, in order to defeat Hakkar -- and Hakkar promptly enslaved them and fed off of their powers. Reports of his immortality have been somewhat exaggerated however, as players can venture into Zul'Gurub and kill him. Whether he is dead-dead, or only mostly dead remains to be seen.

The primal gods of the Gurubashi are animal spirits, and the few known are as follows:

* Shadra: Shadra is the spider goddess, her venom used as a powerful poison for weapons.
* Shirvallah: Shirvallah is the tiger god.
* Bethekk: Bethekk is the panther goddess.
* Hir'eek: Hir'eek is the god of bats.
* Hethiss: Hethiss is the snake god, not to be confused with Ula-Tek. No relation!

Unlike the Amani forest lords, all of the primal Loa gods of the Gurubashi have chosen mortal champions to represent them. These champions have been imbued with the powers of their particular god, and in a way represent another physical form for that god.

Bwonsamdi: This guy is a little different. Rather than representing an animal spirit, Bwonsamdi is the Loa of the dead. He watches over the spirits of those who have died, and is mainly referenced by the Darkspear in the upcoming Echo Isles event. However, the Darkspear were originally part of the Gurubashi Empire and worship many of the Loas of the Gurubashi as a result, so Bwonsamdi may very well be a Loa from the Gurubashi pantheon.

As mentioned above, the Sandfury Tribe was originally part of the Gurubashi Empire. After the Sundering the Sandfury were obviously split from the rest of the trolls, and worshiped their own Loas possibly as a result of this. Only two have been discovered to date:

* Kimbul: Kimbul is the god of tigers, worshiped primarily by the Sandfury tribe in the deserts of Tanaris. He doesn't seem to have any relation to Shirvallah. Other names for Kimbul include Lord of Beasts, King of Cats, and the Prey's Doom.
* Mueh'zala: Mueh'zala is referenced as being a god of death like Bwonsamdi. The Sandfury tribe in Tanaris worships him as well. Other names for Mueh'zala include Father of Sleep, Son of Time, and the Night's Friend.


Zandalar

Before there were Amani, or Gurubashi, there were the Zandalar -- the progenitor race for all trolls of Azeroth. The only known Loa of the Zandalar is Zanza the Restless, who may very well be the spirit of an ancient Zandalar troll. He exists in game in Zul'Gurub and will offer players a variety of items for various classes in the form of armor enhancements. What exactly Zanza is the Loa of is unknown, however Hakkar seems to hold no power over him at all -- which makes him a very powerful being indeed.

Drakkari

The Drakkari Empire's origins are a little odd. These guys were driven out of the more "civilized" troll lands long before the Sundering and settled in northern Kalimdor. Why were they driven out? Because they were so violent, so cruel, and so bloodthirsty that they were considered complete barbarians. Complete barbarians in the eyes of the Amani and Gurubashi Empires. Yeah, these guys were pretty brutal. The Loa of the Drakkari are as follows:

* Sseratus: Sseratus is the serpent god of the Drakkari. No relation to Ula-Tek.
* Har'koa: Har'koa is the goddess of the snow leopard.
* Rhunok: Rhunok is the god of the arctic bear.
* Quetz'lun: Quetz'lun is the god of the wind serpents.
* Mam'toth: Mam'toth is the god of the mammoths.
* Akali: Akali is the god of the rhino.

In addition, there are four other Drakkari gods that, while not seen in World of Warcraft directly, are referenced in various regions of Zul'drak, with shrines dedicated to them:

* Dubra'Jin: Dubra'Jin is a forgotten god whose shrine is located just west of Gundrak. Little is known about Dubra'Jin, other than that he will protect trolls who honor him via sacrificing raptor eggs.
* Zim'Abwa: As with Dubra'Jin, little is known of Zim'Abwa. Making an offering at his shrine will imbue the player with an attack power buff, so it can be assumed Zim'Abwa is a warrior or fighter of some sort.
* Zim'Rhuk: Zim'Rhuk is also known as "The Wise One." Making an offering at his shrine will imbue the player with -- you guessed it -- wisdom, or rather a buff that acts much like the Blessing of Wisdom that paladins offer.
* Zim'Torga: Zim'Torga is a forgotten goddess also known as the "Mother of Prosperity," and will imbue players with a buff similar to Blessing of Kings when left an offering.

Loas of the Shadow hunter

In the Warcraft RPG books, several other Loa are mentioned though no reference has been made to them in game as of yet. The Loa of the Shadow hunters are all references to Loa from Haitian Voudou. Shadow hunters in Warcraft are essentially the masters of voodoo magic -- they walk the line between light and dark and deal primarily with the spirit world. However unlike the witch doctors commonly associated with troll voodoo, the shadow hunters actually have a special bond with the Loa, and are granted abilities with the spirits' blessing.

While the Loa of the shadow hunter have not been mentioned in game, it's still worthwhile to give them a brief once-over:

* Legba: Legba is the Loa of speed, and grants shadow hunters his speed as well as his grace.
* Dambala: Dambala is yet another serpent Loa, no relation to any of the various other snake gods and goddesses mentioned above. He teaches shadow hunters the art of moving silently and swiftly.
* Lukou: Lukou is the Loa of Healing and Respite, and grants shadow hunters the ability to heal. While Lukou can grant the ability to heal, she has no power over the undead, like Holy magic commonly practiced by priests and paladins.
* Ogoun: Ogoun is the Loa of war and teaches shadow hunters the art of hexes and curses.
* Shango: Shango is a Loa god who is the controller of the Realm of Storms -- essentially, he's a thunder god. He teaches the shadow hunter how to throw lightning in the form of "stormspears."
* Samedi: Interestingly, Samedi is the god of death and the restful sleep of the dead, and is a reference to the Loa that Bwonsamdi references -- Baron Semedi, the Loa of the dead in Haitian voudou. Bwonsamdi may be Blizzard's effort to bring these little known Loa into World of Warcraft, though whether we will see any of the other Loa listed here mentioned is unknown.

The limited amount of information involving troll Loa and gods can be frustrating to those trying to research troll lore. However for the active roleplayer it presents a unique kind of open canvas -- trolls have gods for just about everything under the sun, and the number of gods in the troll pantheon has never been fully defined. This leaves an almost limitless amount of room to play when roleplaying a troll character, and creates all kinds of opportunities for myths and legends. Need a god? Make one up -- the trolls have so many, it's not far-fetched at all to produce one that was previously unheard of.

While the Ancients of night elf lore are not only benevolent for the most part, but take an active role in shaping the world, the Loa and gods of the trolls are far more subtle in their efforts. They don't seem to intervene unless they are actively called upon, or channeled into some sort of avatar to do their work for them. The Ancients actively participated in the War of the Ancients because they saw the world in peril -- the Loa on the other hand were completely absent from the picture, busy with their own purposes. Whether or not we see any more of these Eternals come Cataclysm has yet to be seen -- although rumors abound about the efforts to destroy Hakkar in Zul'Gurub, and how they may not have been as effective as previously thought...

_________________
"If we don't know where we belong, it'll make no difference from where we started"

avatar
Vypra
Headhunter

Posts : 943
Join date : 2008-03-10
Age : 41

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Trinda on Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:31 pm

Sertah wrote:Sul may be a desert god, but according to the Tablet of Theka there are at least two more:

Actually, Theka's Tablet lists three names.
I had long forgotten this myself, until last week when I was leveling a new character in the Hinterlands.
During this quest: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=2936/the-spider-god
Theka's Tablet has a second page to read wherein Shadra is named.

Elortha no Shadra
God of Spiders, Mother of Venom, Silk Dancer, Death's Love.

So, the Sandfury appear to have at least 4 known beings that they revere and 1 speculated.
Kimbul, Mueh'zala and Shadra are gods named on the tablet.
Gahz'rilla is also worshiped by the Sandfury as a god and guardian (though, whether he actually is a god is debatable).
Rounding the number of confirmed deities (in the eyes of the Sandfury) up to 4.

And Sul is a very valid contender as a 5th, thanks in no small part to your very logical speculation.

Whether they are all Primal Gods or not is up in the air, but the fact remains.
4 (very plausibly 5) beings can pretty much be confirmed as being worshiped by the Sandfury.
Even more if you make up a few Primal Gods pertaining to the desert animals. Smile

-------------

Which brings me to my next point. I had always thought it was pretty random that the Sandfury of all tribes was invited to Zul'Gurub. The Witherbark and Vilebranch less random, since they very blatantly revere Shadra in the Hinterlands and could have easily been convinced through forcing the enslaved Shadra to send them a message by some means.

Now that my memory has been jogged from questing and Shadra's name is present in Zul'Farrak, it become far more clear why they (Sandfury) were invited. Why waste time and effort sending emissaries and trying to convince tribes to join your cause when you can simply demonstrate the power your god has over their god.

"Shadra, tell them how powerful Hakkar is and demand that the Witherbark, Vilebranch and Sandfury join us."
Shadra is then forced to send a message in ethereal form or through one of her children.
Boom. You now have 3 whole tribes as your ally without even leaving your temple-city.
avatar
Trinda
Headhunter

Posts : 30
Join date : 2010-01-28
Location : Shadowprey Village

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  vajro on Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:17 pm

What i find increadibly odd is that all diferent troll kind have different loas even tho they where originally same tribe.
Why is this? Did they just draw straws for each loa? Becouse its impossoble that Loas existed just by prayers. And how come some loas are animals that Zandali shouldnt ever even heard of?
avatar
vajro
Headhunter

Posts : 40
Join date : 2010-07-28
Location : Sweden

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Zul'Ros on Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:30 pm

Loas are mostly your average spirits. They're not some omnipotent creatures and their influence is territorial in nature, as seen from the Zalazane quest chain. Trolls moved far from their original home, to places inhabited by different spirits. Doesn't it make sense to worship something that lives next door and actually answers your prayers? Very Happy
Well, at least that's how I think it is.
avatar
Zul'Ros
Headhunter

Posts : 163
Join date : 2009-05-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Snicka on Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:14 pm

Zul'Ros's explanation makes sense. There were many spirits out in the world connected to nature and various creatures, many of them being unknown to trolls before they arrived to the lands inhabited by these spirits. When the trolls settled down at a certain location, their spiritual leaders contacted the local spirits and started worshipping the strongest ones as gods. This might mean that there are plenty of spirits out there that are not worshipped, because trolls simply have not found them.

An alternative explanation is that the Zandalari indeed worshipped a big pantheon of gods, but the certain tribes and families had patrons. When the tribes split up, each family continued to worship their own gods, but forgot about the others, ending up with smaller, local pantheons. If we assume that the animal aspect is not an essential part of them, just a symbol or favoured form, it might have changed over time, as the trolls forgot about the creatures from their homelands, so replaced their gods' animal aspect with something from the local fauna.

_________________
Snicka, the Literally Fallen Warlord
avatar
Snicka
Warlord

Posts : 818
Join date : 2007-10-06
Age : 31
Location : Budapest, Hungary

View user profile http://heritageofzuljin.moonfruit.com

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Trinda on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:56 pm

Loa relevant. I don't know if you are still on spoiler alert regarding new content.
So, just in case you really want to find out yourself, I've put the spoiler tabs in.

Spoiler:
Uncovered a new loa while questing in the Hinterlands today!
Akil'darah - a female bird loa (appears to be an eagle or falcon).

Given the naming pattern, I suspect she is indeed an eagle and is the mate (if not parent/sibling/child) of Akil'zon, the eagle loa that we encountered in Zul'Aman.
avatar
Trinda
Headhunter

Posts : 30
Join date : 2010-01-28
Location : Shadowprey Village

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Primal Gods

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum